April 18, 2008
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The Book of Isaiah Chapter 1 V.1 Part 3.4 Paul & the Female Controversy 7
The Book of Isaiah
Chapter 1 V.1 Part 3.4
Paul & the Female Controversy 7
Unequal in the Assembly
Paul’s authentic letters were written to communities and not to individuals, with the exception of Philemon. The letters to Timothy and Titus are three inauthentic post-Pauline letters to individuals, to Timothy, imagined as left by Paul in charge of Crete. There is, by the way, not the slightest hint in his authentic seven letters that Paul ever left anyone in charge of the communities he founded – that is why he always writes to the Thessalonians, Corinthians, Galatians, Phillipians, Romans, but never to a presiding elder or overseer as representative of the community.
The subject of female leadership within the Christian assembly arises in the post-Pauline 1 Timothy, but also as an intersection within the Pauline 1 Corinthians.
1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
In this text female leadership is absolutely forbidden by this psuedo-Pauline author. Women are not allowed to teach or instruct men. Women are to remain silent.
Clearly of course, psuedo-Paul would not bother to forbid what never happened. That prohibition therefore, tells us that women were praying and teaching within the community’s catechetical practise and lithurgical worship. But this text dismisses women from those functions and relegates them to home, silence, and childbearing. Augustus, you will recall, would have been particularly pleased with those injunctions.
1Cr 14:33b but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Cr 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
The problem here is not with an inauthentic Pauline letter like 1 or 2 Timothy or Titus, but with an insertion from that later tradition into an original earlier authentic letter of Paul. In the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible this unit appears in parentheses. Those parentheses emphasize manuscript problems in the earliest textual transmission.
First the passage is not at its present location but at the end of the chapter in some manuscripts. Second, those verses are given as a separate paragraph in all Greek manuscripts. Third, that section was deemed problematic very early, and this is the most important argument for its later insertion into Paul’s original text.
Bear in mind, the above is a continuation from the same book I’ve been posting from in the previous posts on this. Please don’t respond under the delusion that I am claiming that anything in the bible is inauthentic. I’m merely exposing you to what this biblical scholar had to say about this, and you can draw your own conclusions.
On another note, the continuation of “The Big Camping Adventure ” is forthcoming, but I need time to upload all of those pics and make some slide shows. Have a blessed weekend.
Comments (6)
God doesn’t seem to have a problem with a lot of female teachers and preachers out there. I don’t have a problem with them either.
wow! that explains a lot to me that i didn’t understand before. thanks for that post!
thanks for the encouragement too. it’s helps a lot hearing from someone who’s already been through and survived something like what i’ve had to deal with. big hugs!!!
Hello! Thank you sooo much for taking the time and thoughtfully responding to Art Katz’s booklet that I have posted! He is so missed by the Body of Christ, I have just loved listening to his sermons and reading articles and books by him. Truly a prophetic voice that had the Lord’s heart and purposes at the forefront of his life! I loved all of your thoughts in response and agree!
The Church of Jesus Christ, His Body, is alive and well, and He has called us apart to Himself, changed our hearts, and is teaching us, and bringing us to holiness and discipling us, personally. He is jealous for God’s holiness and glory, and I have seen Him gathering His remnant, those that desire Him for Himself, who want to know where He is at all times and will follow Him wherever He may goes, and love not their own lives… we know we have been bought and paid for with the greatest price and we are so grateful to have been rescued and washed by His precious blood! We are regenerated and know He is going to finish what He has started. We know our great need, our weakness, and weep over His amazing grace, and have new revelations from Him as He teaches us of Himself..for our hearts are to know Him… He has taken our hearts out of the system of religion and we are so jealous for Him that we cannot bear anything that teaches of Him falsely and leads people astray…we grieve for the lost who want to find Him and go to churches and leave with broken hearts…but He has promised that there are those that are truly His, that will reflect His glory! that will continue in repentance and He will grow us in grace and knowledge of Him…
Just to help explain Art’s thoughts here a little better:
he said:
“Karl Barth, the Swiss theologian, made the pointed statement that
nothing more reveals our pathetic humanity than our seeking to serve
God, or to celebrate and worship God out of that humanity. “
you said: I didn’t quite understand the logic of that statement, other than
the fact that our seeking God demonstrates our need of Him, but this
sounded more like an issue of serving Him, which in my opinion, does
not reveal pathetic humanity. Pathetic humanity is revealed in people
who don’t serve Him because they are too self-serving to give of their
time or abundance.
my thoughts: what I think he is meaning is trying to to serve God out of our own
hope that helps clarify!
works, ie: the flesh, and our human nature, rather than through the
Holy Spirit and Christ Jesus, as in “not by might, nor by power, but by
My Spirit, says the Lord”
Thank you so much for the breath of the Spirit you brought to me today! I am so greatly encouraged! The Lord led me to place this booklet on my xanga and my flesh has struggled with it because I knew it would not be popular, nor “feel good” . I know He is stretching me, yet again (so thankful!) to not desire to please men/women and to not be afraid to speak what He so desires, regardless of the rejection I may experience because of it! His Love is not like ours, which is self gratifying… we want others to love and accept us, and this is the human nature that opposes the things of the Spirit… a continual area in need of submission to the Cross! And I know when I am obedient to His desire to tell the Truth …that it is His Love pouring forth… for that Truth sets us free! and that is the greatest Love! we truly are a blessed people!
“May the Lord direct your heart into the love of God and into the steadfastness of Christ.” ys (oh, I’ll be back to read more of this series as soon as I can! very interesting!)
Romans 8:28 says, “We know that all things work together for good; to those who love God; to those who are called according to His purpose.” God bless! :)
@myexodus23 - Trusting God is not always a “feel good” adventure, but the thing is…we’ll feel worse if we don’t trust Him. We’ll get hurt if we don’t place our trust solely in him. Glad that blessed you. I enjoyed the read on your site, and will check back for more. Peace.
Without going into detail regarding the manuscript comments, I’ll simply say “I agree.” In fact, it was my personal struggle with reconciling what I felt to be true in my spirit with what I was being taught about Biblical in errancy regarding Creationism and women’s roles that finally had me face the Bible from a scholarly perspective. I’ve not lost my faith in its inspiration or power … but it has freed me to (I believe) align my spirit more with what the Holy Spirit is doing TODAY than what He was busy doing millenia ago.